tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC August 27, 2018 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
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prosecutors to discuss a possible plea deal to resolve the second set of charges against manafort. the plea discussions occurred as the virginia jury was spending four days deliberating tax and bank fraud charges against mr. manafort, sources said. of course, that jury convicted manafort on eight counts. they deadlocked on ten others. the talks between the two sides were aimed at a second trial for paul manafort that is set to begin on september 17th in washington, d.c. that's just three weeks from today. that second trial will focus on his alleged violations of the foreign agent's registration act. but the two sides apparently couldn't reach a deal and now they are moving closer to that second trial. people familiar with the matter tell "the wall street journal," quote, the plea talks on the second set of charges stalled over issues raised by robert
mueller. one of the people said it isn't clear what those issues were, and the proposed terms of the plea deal couldn't immediately be determined, end quote. the plea discussions on this, the second upcoming case, quote, represent a softening in posture for mr. manafort. manafort has fought charges more aggressively than others in the mueller investigation. president trump praised his brave former campaign chairman saying he had, quote, refused to break. it seems manafort was closer to breaking than we all realized. there is no indication that if manafort had struck a plea deal that he would have cooperated with mueller's team. we know the president's feelings on former allies who cooperate with prosecutors. >> this whole thing about flipping, i know all about flipping. for 30, 40 years i have been watching flippers. it almost out to be outlawed. it is called flipping, and it
almost ought to be illegal. >> almost ought to be illegal. earlier today, we also found out that trump may be willing to take drastic steps to pardon paul manafort. trump is continuing to raise the possibility of a pardon and has been, quote, clashing with this man, white house counsel don mcgahn who is strongly against pardoning manafort. trump is considering bringing in a new lawyer to draft a manafort pardon if mcgahn won't do it. he really at this point doesn't care, a former official said. he would rather fight the battle. he doesn't want to do anything that would cede executive authority. all this draws closer. mueller has until this wednesday to inform the judge of that decision if mueller follows through on a second attempt to
obtain guilty pleas on those counts, he could add to the already immense pressure on manafort by extending his potential prison sentence and inflating his legal bills. all right. there is a lot to get through here. joining us now, former federal prosecutor, a professor of law at the university of michigan and poll tiitics editor of the y beast. >> this business, first of all, of donald trump saying flipping should almost be illegal. obviously he's sending a message about who he likes and who he doesn't like and what paul manafort should do. but how do you evacuate that comment. >> i think it is a terrible comment for law enforcement and anybody that cares about criminal justice. cooperators are used every day. there are a lot of safe guards in place to ensure they are telling the truth, like requiring corroborating evidence and jury instructions that tell them to use additional
skepticism when evaluating the testimony of a cooperator and making sure it lines up with the other evidence in the case. so i worry about the impact that that has when jurors across the country hear the president of the united states say it ought to be illegal because prosecutors ask juries to believe cooperators every day in all kinds of garden variety cases, and i think that this statement makes it harder for prosecutors to obtain convictions in many kinds of cases. >> sam, according to "vanity fair," the president spent the weekend calling people and screaming following the cohen, manafort, allen wisle berg and pecker convictions. trump organization cfo allen weisselberg are cooperating with federal prosecutors have rattled trump like few other terms have. he spent the weekend calling people and screaming.
one former white house official said. and according to sources, the president feels cornered with no clear way out. what do you make of it? >> well, i spend my weekends calling people and screaming, too, so it is not that remarkable. secondly, i think that the walls are closing in on the president. these are people who are not insignificant, smallish players on his campaign like george pop dop lis, for instance. they have intimate knowledge of his campaign and staff currently. if they are talking with prosecutors, if they're working with authorities, then certainly the president is right to feel that some of his most unseemly secrets could be out to the public. you get the sense from talking to people in and around the administration, it is a different type of intensity. it is not necessarily political. although, that matters and certainly he is see the future where the house is dominated by
democrats. it's not necessarily that. it is a personal intensity where he sees everything he's built up come crashing down. >> mimi, let's talk about pardoning paul manafort. a jor majority of americans disapprove of the idea. 11% think the pardon would be appropriate. 60% say inappropriate for cohen. numbers are similar. doesn't seem like there is any chance of cohen getting a pardon. but what's this business? the president keeps sending signals about how paul manafort is a good guy who didn't break. he won't discount the idea of a pardon. he is talking about getting rid of don mcgahn if he doesn't agree to pard b mon manafort, t manafort trial, his team has been thanking the president for their support. can they be talking about a pardon? or they can't do that? >> they shouldn't be. it is bad enough that trump is doing this public dance, which we have called floating pardons,
dangling pardons. some people have suggested that it is coming close to the line almost of a bribe. i mean, is he offering manafort basically a pardon in exchange for, you know, him not cooperating? so, i mean, you know, could the lawyers be talking to each other? maybe. i think he should not be talking about it at all. it is dangerous territory. >> but do you interpret this as that, that the president is sending messages out to manafort, don't cave? >> yes. it really does seem that way, particularly after the trial, particularly when at the trial manafort's lawyer in the closing argument was making this argument that he had sort of said they weren't going to make and were supposed to not be making which was how unfair it is and he's being select i
havely prosecuted. also directly playing into what trump is saying, which is poor manafort. he's being targeted because he worked for me. that's all a big set-up for he can pardon him. it goes to this question of why isn't manafort pleading guilty? one possibility is that manafort couldn't plead guilty because if you plead guilty it would be harder for trump to give him a pardon. >> that's interesting. looks like he might be interesting. >> he is this poor, persecuted guy. it is interesting to see there have been discussions about that. i don't know how that will play into the pardon talk. >> the washington post is reporting about the second trial. it says it is set for september in august and expected to last three weeks and on the basis of a list of 1,500 possible exhibits will delve far more deeply into how he operated as a lobbyist and consultant than was done in the just completed trial in virginia. the time line and exhibits were included in a joint filing on friday night by manafort's
defense and prosecutors with special counsel robert s. mueller, iii. this trial, for those of us who are not lawyers, that he could plead guilty, he could cooperate or he could do neither and go on with this trial. but legal watchers i have talked to have said this is a tighter case and possibly a better case for the government than the first trial. >> yeah. and the government also i think is coming in with a lot of momentum after the eight convictions it obtained in the prior case. now we know it was only one juror who stood in the way of convicting on 18 counts. i watched this trial. now they have the chance to go in and prove-up some of that same evidence that will come in to prove the money laundering charges. now we will hear a little bit more about the work he did as a lobbyist because that is the substance of the foreign agent registration act. it makes sense to me that this is the moment when they might be considering a guilty plea. you know, they took their shot
in the first case. manafort did, and lost. and now knowing what the writing is on the wall, maybe this is the opportunity to try to work out some sort of deal. the only leverage he really has is cooperation. but he could still plead guilty without cooperating and still receive some sort of sentencing benefit by doing so. it wouldn't surprise me to see a guilty plea at this stage. >> roger stone has been talking to a publication about the possibility of don jr. being charged with mueller with lying to the fbi. let's listen to this. >> i predicted yesterday, based on excellent sourcing, that the special counsel is going to charge donald trump jr. with lying to the fbi. >> donald trump jr. just mentioned it. is he going to be -- is mueller going after him next? he said they would try to get him for lying to the fbi. >> notice they're not going after him for the underlying crime because there is no crime. he has done nothing wrong.
>> what do you think about that? some say donald trump's kids are his achilles heel. others say even that doesn't move the guy. he's only interested in protecting himself. >> i take everything roger stone says with ten grains of salt, to be clear. i'm not entirely sure if he has the best insider knowledge on this. but to the broader question of what role donald jr. plays in the president's orbit, yeah, i do believe the kids are the achilles heel here. this is a man that doesn't have many things that he holds close to him, but family appears to be at least some of them, at least in some part. don jr. would be the eldest child and a close associate to the campaign and certainly someone you want to protect. don jr. has mislead, let's put it that way, the initial story for instance about the trump tower meeting was just erroneous. it was about finding dirt on hillary clinton. so there are clearly cases where the story hasn't always lined
up, at least publically. i don't know what he said privately. but if there is the same pattern, then, sure, he has some legal vulnerabilities. >> let's talk about that. we don't know what roger stone is talking about. but in theory we do know that that's a public statement, as sam said, that didn't match up with reality. so it's quite possible that donald trump jr. and others repeated that lie in private to the fbi. is that the kind of thing the mueller investigation might do? >> charge him? >> they could. there is also a possibility he could be charged with lying to congress in his testimony because he lied about the meeting there as well, it sounds like. you know, and we don't know what else -- this is the most public thing that we know he lied about because he lied in public about it as well. my guess is -- >> right. he released all these tweets and e-mails. >> we saw the lie play out in plain sight as we have said many times about donald trump, the father. but remember as we say over and
over mueller knows so much more. if he interviewed trump jr., he asked him so many other questions that presumably he also lied about. and we just don't know about them because, again, they are not in the public arena. >> where do you think that goes? because if you look at the way these cases are being built where they are finding people peripheral and moving up to the center on this thing, do you think the kids are a possibility? >> oh, i think so. you know, they're close. and i guess i wouldn't lump them altogether, but donald trump jr. is really at the heart of this with his involvement with the meeting in trump tower. i take exception to what roger stone said about there is no crime there. lying to the fbi, lying to investigators is a very significant crime. the whole system relies on people telling the truth. if you do talk to them, don't lie. so you see it again and again. martha stewart, every day people are charged with lying to the
fbi because it is the way they do their business. if you lie to them, it is a crime. >> right. >> if they can prove that lie, i think they will for the deterrent effect it has on other cases. >> i have learned that in the last couple years. don't lie to congress and don't lie to the fbi unless you have very deep pockets. thanks to all three of you for being with me. thanks to both of you. coming up, why bob mueller's investigation may not be the biggest threat that president trump faces. there is another federal probe that could him and his family in more jeopardy. next the president spoke out about john mccain tonight but before the president was scolded by veterans. before the president was scolded by veterans. ♪
paul manafort is good man. he was with ronald reagan. he was with a lot of different people over the years. and i feel very sad about that. because it involved me. but it is a very sad thing that happened. >> very sad. that was the president's reaction when reporters asked him about convicted fellen paul manafort last week. today reporters asked the president of the united states about the death of decorated war h hero and senator, john mccain. >> hello, folks.
>> why won't you say anything about john mccain? mr. president, do you have any thoughts at all about john mccain? do you believe john mccain was a hero, sir? >> guys, let's go. >> nothing at all about john mccain? >> that's just weird, right? he just got asked several times today many opportunities. it was very clear. he just looked straight ahead when asked about john mccain. it is a layup. saying something nice about john mccain is about the easiest thing any american could possibly do today. it would come easier than most of your normal errands. but president trump refused to leave a statement that would have called mccain a hero. instead he said my deepest sympathies and respect go out to
the family of john mccain. that's nice, but no compliment. the white house also broke tradition this morning by placing its flag at full staff before john mccain's burial, even as the capital flag remain at half-staff. tonight president trump appears to be relenting after withering criticism from the american legion which represents two million veterans and criticism from kind of everyone else. the white house flag some time in the 3:00 hour went back to half-staff again late this afternoon. and tonight after nearly 48 hours of refusing to utter a positive word about american hero john mccain, the president said this. >> also our hearts and prayers are going to the family of senator john mccain. there will be a lot of activity over the next number of days, and we very much appreciate
everything that senator mccain has done for our country, so thank you very much. >> well, that's a start. joining us is the author of "the soul of america" and a conservative opinion writer for the washington post. jennifer, i'm just trying to keep it under wraps here because i just don't understand. when somebody dies, it is just not hard to say something nice about them because they're not going to know you said anything nice about them. you get to take the win about being mean to them while they were alive. i just don't understand why this was such a struggle but more interestingly why he flipped. >> well, it is because you are not a raging narcissist that you find it difficult to understand why someone can't say something nice about a dead war hero. but trump is incapable of acknowledging other people's superiority and john mccain was in every day imaginable superior to the president of the united states.
so it was not going to be something that he was going to do willingly, and i think he was probably under the impression that, like charlottesville, like all of the other horrible things he's said and done there would be a little fuss and then things would move on. here he took on the wrong group of people, and that is veterans. the two million people with the american legion i think had an impression on him. from what we understand, everyone in the white house in terms of his senior staff, in terms of general mattis, in terms of even sarah huckabee sanders were basically telling him you need to do this. you need to do this. in the past john mccain has resisted that kind of advice. but even fox was praising john mccain. so the jig was up. >> everybody was praising john mccain. >> exactly, exactly. >> and a lot of people who -- i talked to a lot of people who would describe john mccain as their nemesis.
he was the thorn in a side to a lot of people in his party, to the democratic party. is there a historical sort of precedent for the idea that the has or invents a nemesis and then there is just no ability to sort of get past partisan ship to honor that person. john mccain is one person that people on the left honor, people on the right honor. they respected the idea they would principal before most other things. >> yeah. you know, the person who presided the longest in that office where he was sitting today where john karl was giving him the chance to do the right thing was franklin roosevelt who said in september of 1932 in the midst of the great depression, in the midst of his campaign against herbert hoover. the presidency is a place of moral leadership. that was fdr's vision of the presidency. it was the biggest -- it was the
same view that the biggest men so far who have held that office have adhered to. and, you know, i agree with jennifer. it's sweet of you in a way to be somewhat surprised. i think it speaks well of your character. but we're at a point where i was toting up the list. a lot of us got a sense of this with his attack on senator mccain during the campaign. but also the attack on the kahn's, the gold star family. there is something telling about that. i'm practicing psychiatry without a license, but that's what biographers do. he has a hard time about knowledging the courage and sacrifice of others. i think because he has fundamental unacknowledged anxieties about his own virtues. >> jennifer, john mccain had written a letter. he had written a statement to
americans that was to be released upon his passing. and his long-time friend rick davis read that today. there is an interesting paragraph in here that i want to play that i think is very telling. it's after john mccain talking about america's greatness. this is what he wrote. >> these are john's words. we weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with trooifl rivalries that have sewn resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. we woken eaken it when we hide d walls, when we doubt the power of our ideals, rather than trust them to be the great force for change they have always been. do not despair of our present difficulties. we believe always in the promise and greatness of america because nothing is inevitable here. americans never quit. we never surrender.
we never hide from history. we make history. >> so jennifer, putting aside the fact that he said we weaken it when we hide behind walls, which seemed like an attack on president trump, we weaken our greatness when we confuse our pay tree yoichl with tribal rivalrie rivalries. there isn't something even remotely partisan about that statement. but it does speak to our national anxiety right now. i often say to somebody like you right now, a conservative, is this the kind of thing republicans can rally around and say this is what republicans have stood for for decades prior to donald trump showing up. >> it would be my fond hope. but at this present juncture, i feel the party has completely lost its way and i think they will salute john mccain. they will make nice speeches and then they will go back to their totism. it is not until the party has delivered one or maybe more devastating election losses that
they will come around to see the error of their ways. and i think we all think of donald trump when we hear those words, but those are equally applicable to the republican party as a whole, which has been this triplistic no nothing understand principaled party that simply jumps whenever donald trump tells them to and is loathed to perform their constitutional obligation, which is to check the president of the united states, which is to conduct appropriate oversight. and, so, i would like to think that donald trump would have finally played his tune out. but i see no evident of that. now, i will grant you the republican party is a lot smaller these days in part because people like me have left it. if you do the math, you can come up with 10 or 15 people who no longer identify as republican. it is a smaller party than it used to be. but i still maintain that the only way to rescue the party or to clear the decks is to,
frankly, give them a spanking in november and probably in 2020 as well. >> john, let's talk about how the world is going to remember these two men in their interactions. john mccain was imperfect. he says it himself. there are lots of things he's criticized for, but there are a lot of things for which he is admired. in the end he will be remembered the way he wanted to be remembered, a man who served his country hopefully honorably. how will history remember him and his relationship with donald trump, do you think? >> well, john mccain is a great american. originally he's a great american story. fascinating not least because he feels as though he's a world war ii figure, though he was younger than that. his heroism was tested in the crucible of vietnam in captivity. when we look at him, to some extent we tend to see someone more in common with george w.
bush or bob dole, who are also passing so quickly. it seems to me that the contrast between john mccain and the incumbent president will be a useful one for historians and biographers who look at the competing traditions in american life. john mccain was someone who in this remarkable last testament has once again affirmed a big hearted vision of the country. it's a vision that, again, for all their faults, t.r. had it, donald reagan had it. john mccain had it. donald trump represents the other end of that spectrum, which is the tradition of building walls, imposing tariffs, of constricting the classic conservative ideas of the free movement of thought and people. conservatives in the classical sense are people who want to let freedom go as far as it possibly can as long as it doesn't harm
you or me. and john mccain represents opening arms. donald trump today, you saw him, folds them. >> yeah, he certainly did. thanks to both of you. coming up next, the special counsel investigation may not be the federal investigation that's posing the biggest threat to the president. there is another investigation that could also even snare ivanka, eric and donald trump jr. jr nsnare ivanka, eric and donald trump jr. nsnare, eric and donald trump jr
actually come from the southern district of new york. that's where trump's long time lawyer and fixer michael cohen pleaded guilty to violating campaign finance laws and implicated donald trump himself in those crimes. it is also where prosecutors granted immunity to this man, allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer for the trump organization who, quote, knows where the financial bodies are buried. also granting immunity in the case are two of trump's associates who own the tabloid the "national enquirer." the southern district is building its case like it would build a case of organized crime. this is a classic move in investigations of crimina crimi organization. they're moving up the ladder. peripheral characters are given immunity. witnesses testify. but they're ultimately keeping their eye on the prize.
the prize. the washington post reports that trump's wall of secrecy, the work of a lifetime is starting to crack. certain cases could force trump's company to open its books about foreign government customers or compel the president to testify about his relationships with women. trump legal defender warned the president and his legal team that the mueller investigation should not be their priority. >> perhaps the special counsel is the least of the threats the president faces right now. you have got the southern district, the new york attorney general, the manhattan district attorney. where is the greatest threat? >> i said that right from the beginning because i think he has constitutional defenses to the investigation being conducted by mueller. but there are no constitutional defenses to what the southern district is investigating. so i think the southern district is the greatest threat. >> joining us is the staff writer at the atlantic covering national security and the
intelligence community. she wrote the article about the southern district. mimi is back with us. welcome to both of you. what did he mean when he said the president has constitutional defenses against the mueller investigation but not against the southern district of new york? >> well, i think you have put me in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with allen on something. so i think the point he was trying to make is that the president could order rod rosenstein essentially to fire rob mueller at any point. of course rosenstein could refuse to do that and there are certain -- there are, you know, limits to -- there are issues relates to the president's executive authority that that could hinder the mueller investigation in a way that the southern district of new york may not be affected by. for example, if bob mueller was fired, his work would potentially continue, but you
can't really end the investigations that are being carried out by prosecutors in the southern district of new york by firing one person. i mean, this is something that's out of the president's control, really. and i think that's why he's so terrified at the moment. if you speak to people close to him, they say that he feels like he's being backed into a corner. it is also because he knows that this is getting into the heart of his finances, the heart of the trump organization, of course. >> which he warned mueller not to get involved in, but the southern district has no warning from the president. he needs to heed no warning from the president. >> the president really has never had to face consequences for anything. this is kind of the system striking back in a way that i don't think he expected it to. now, of course, i don't think that that means that the mueller investigation poses no threat to the president. >> correct, yeah. >> of course, he is investigating whether the president obstructed justice, which is a serious danger. and of course we also don't know
what mueller has in terms of a potential conspiracy between the trump campaign and russia. so these are questions that will need to be answered. right now the more immediate threat is being posed by the southern district. >> it would be overstating it to say it is not a threat to the president. but you are formerly of the southern district of new york. we're not clear on the distinction. but it does seem like the southern district doesn't have to run scared of anything donald trump can do. the only thing he can do is pardon somebody that gets a conviction from the southern district. >> that's generally true. u.s. attorneys run their investigations independently, certainly of the president, but also even independentry of the attorney general, of the department of justice. there is certain things that u.s. attorneys offices like the southern district need to go to what we call main justice, the
attorney general and offices within the department of justice in washington to get permission for certain kinds of charges, tax charges. now, if you recall, in michael cohen's plea there was, i believe, a tax agent, an agent from the irs at his plea, which means they are already involved. so that permission has already been sought because we know that michael cohen pled guilty to tax charges. so i think the point is that it would be so unusual for trump in some way to impose limits on the southern district investigation. and the southern district is not just any u.s. attorney's office. it is sort of sometimes called the sovereign district of new york. >> right. >> but it is for a reason and it is because the southern district has always really maintained its independence more than other offices. that's going to come in handy here. >> by the way, there is also the
manhattan district attorney who are yet hard removed from influences that donald trump can have over them. >> right. i mean, they have -- he has no power over them, you know, other than, i guess, political influence. >> tweets and saying bad things about them. >> exactly. >> i do want to ask you about this business about where there could be liability for donald trump's kids when it comes to these other investigations. >> of course. well, trump's three children, ivanka, donald trump jr. and eric trump, they were all executive vice presidents at the trump organization. so if there was any wrongdoing in terms of the financial dealings in the trump organization's history, that could open them up to some legal exposure. of course what the new york attorney general is investigating regarding the trump foundation, that would be more problem maltic for trump's kids because as we have seen there is evidence they used their charity to fund certain aspects of the trump campaign.
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trump made the announcement that a new trade agreement with pension koe would replace key aspects of faf ta t he wanted to do it with the president of pension koe. but he had technical difficulty to get the president of pension koe on the phone the page the announcement. >> i believe the president is on the phone. enrique? you could hook him up. it's a big thing. a lot of people waiting. >> introducing the president. >> hello? do you want to put that on this phone, please? hello? >> okay. well, after all the complications with the speakerphone, they finally got the mexican president on the phone. trump went on to give this new agreement a new name, one that entirely excludes canada.
>> i like to call this deal the united states-mexico trade agreement. i think it is an elegant name. i think nafta had a lot of bad connotations for the united states because it was a riff-off. we will see whether or not we decide to put up canada if they want to make the deal. the simplest deal is more or less already made. it would be easy to do. >> while nafta may not roll off the tongue, u.s.-mexico trade agreement would be -- so that's not that elegant. let's take a look at what's in the agreement between the united states and mexico. the deal requires that 75% of automobile parts must be made in the united states and mexico in order for a car to avoid tariffs. that's up from approximately 62.5%. 40% to 45% of those parts must be made by workers earning a minimum of $16 per hour. not an average, a minimum.
that means that some mexican workers could get a raise as auto workers there are made less. in addition, if this agreement is approved by congress, ftarifs will return to zero, which is how they were under nafta before donald trump started this trade war. the deal calls for incentives for increasing textile and clothing in the united states and mexico. u.s. and mexico hope to reach a three-way deal with canada by the end of this week, but it remains to be seen if canada will agree to this deal or reach to its own deal with the united states. they hope canada will agree to the terms by friday because the house formally plans to notify congress that trump will sign the deal. congress has 90 days to approve it. we will discuss why the president's new trade agreement isn't all he made it out to be. (vo) why do subaru forester
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to be honest with you, i wouldn't mind seeing nafta where you would go by a different name where you make a separate deal with canada and a separate deal with mexico. because you're talking about a very different two countries. >> here to help me explain what is in this new preliminary agreement, remember that's what i'm calling it, is austan
goolsbee, currently a professor of economics at the university of chicago. the president this morning said he's getting rid of nafta. this is the u.s.-mexico trade agreement, then he got nafta on the phone talking about canada and how happy they are to get canada in on this thing, so they don't seem to know what has been agreed to. >> it's not really much of anything. every day we don't have a trade war is good for the economy. today we didn't have -- if donald trump wants to do a small, meaningless adjustment to one sector within nafta and first talk to mexico, that's fine. if that keeps him from ranting and raving and starting a trade war, then we should all clap politely and say, good job, mr. president, and just move on to the next thing. >> the stock market responded well because i think they haven't seen since february when all this nonsense started that, oh, maybe there are things this
president can do that aren't trade warish. the deal doesn't look bad but it deals with one thing, the auto sector. it's a small thing that trump said he would get if he negotiated with one country rather than negotiating with canada and mexico. it's not bad. >> it's not good, it's just a couple little crumbs, but just to put in context, both canada and mexico agreed to far more expansive things that were in the u.s.'s favor to become part of the trans-pacific partnership. if they had signed the trans-pacific partnership, they would have made much more significant concessions than this only in the auto sector thing that they're talking about right now. >> what do you make of the few concessions that are in there? for instance, the idea that 40 to 45% of the parts that are going to be made to make a north american car have to be at a minimum of $16 an hour. what's the net effect of that?
does that mean mexicans will earn more or does that mean more plants will stay in america? >> well, a, let's set aside the whole thing of this still needs to be negotiated and details and still needs to be voted on. >> mexico and america, and if canada is still involved, by canada. >> with what we've seen of kind of international agreements of this form where you try to put in very specific one-sector deals like that is a counting gimmickry. i would not be surprised at all if in a way they called it raising the wages in mexico, in a different way they split the firm into two and they said, oh, no, this firm is paying $16 an hour to the two managers, it was that other firm that's paying less. i think the original nafta lowered tariffs on thousands of products. affected hundreds of industries -- >> you mean in nafta which was
the worst deal ever made. >> it was the worst deal. i thought on the phone mexico was maybe calling his people and saying, you mean at the end of the day donald trump was asking us to sign a deal to do almost nothing? he's trying to take it as fast as possible. let's just sign it and move on to the next thing. >> it does seem this is not as big a thing as the president wanted people to think in that it doesn't actually do away with nafta. austan, good to talk to you, as always. austan goolsbee. i'll have tonight's last word after this. d after this introducing the 2018 c-class sedan, coupe and cabriolet. the thrills keep getting better.
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. time now for tonight's last word. >> in a contests as long and difficult as this campaign has been, his success alone commands my respect for his ability and perseverance. but that he managed to do so by inspiring the hopes of so many millions of americans who once wrongly believed they had little at stake or little influence in the election of an american president is something i deeply admire and commend him for achieving. >> with all its suffering and
danger, the world still looks to the example and leadership of america to become another better place. what greater cause could anyone ever serve? >> senator john mccain gets tonight's last word. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts right now. new tonight from the "wall street journal." paul manafort sought a plea deal. that was until talks broke down reportedly because of robert mueller. plus, rudy giuliani's pr play. why trump's lawyer is down to swaying public opinion as the only way to win the war. and remembering an american hero. the late john mccain leaves a parting message for his fellow americans as the white house reverses course today, sending flags lowered in respect until mccain's burial. "the 11th hour" on a monday night